Editing Pinyin (section)

==== The {{nwr|⟨ü⟩}} sound ====
An [[Umlaut (diacritic)|umlaut]] is added to {{angbr IPA|u}} when it occurs after the initials {{angbr IPA|l}} and {{angbr IPA|n}} when necessary in order to represent the sound {{IPA|[y]}}. This is necessary in order to distinguish the front high rounded vowel in {{tlit|zh|lü}} (e.g. {{zhi|s=驴|t=驢|l=donkey}}) from the back high rounded vowel in {{tlit|zh|lu}} (e.g. {{zhi|s=炉|t=爐|l=oven}}). Tonal markers are placed above the umlaut, as in {{tlit|zh|lǘ}}.

However, the ''ü'' is ''not'' used in the other contexts where it could represent a front high rounded vowel, namely after the letters ''j'', ''q'', ''x'', and ''y''. For example, the sound of the word for {{zhl|s=鱼|t=魚|l=fish}} is transcribed in pinyin simply as {{tlit|zh|yú}}, not as *{{tlit|zh|yǘ}}. This practice is opposed to Wade–Giles, which always uses ''ü'', and [[Tongyong Pinyin]], which always uses ''yu''. Whereas Wade–Giles needs the umlaut to distinguish between ''chü'' (pinyin {{tlit|zh|ju}}) and ''chu'' (pinyin {{tlit|zh|zhu}}), this ambiguity does not arise with pinyin, so the more convenient form ''ju'' is used instead of ''jü''. Genuine ambiguities only happen with ''nu''/''nü'' and ''lu''/''lü'', which are then distinguished by an umlaut.

Many fonts or output methods do not support an umlaut for ''ü'' or cannot place tone marks on top of ''ü''. Likewise, using ''ü'' in input methods is difficult because it is not present as a simple key on many keyboard layouts. For these reasons ''v'' is sometimes used instead by convention. For example, it is common for cellphones to use ''v'' instead of ''ü''. Additionally, some stores in China use ''v'' instead of ''ü'' in the transliteration of their names. The drawback is a lack of [[precomposed character]]s and limited font support for [[combining accent]]s on the letter ''v'', ({{IPA|v̄ v́ v̌ v̀}}).

This also presents a problem in transcribing names for use on passports, affecting people with names that consist of the sound {{tlit|zh|lü}} or {{tlit|zh|nü}}, particularly people with the surname {{zhc|c=吕|p=[[Lü (surname)|Lǚ]]}}, a fairly common surname, particularly compared to the surnames {{zhc|c=陆|p=[[Lu (surname 陆)|Lù]]}}, {{zhc|c=鲁|p=[[Lu (surname 鲁)|Lǔ]]}}, {{zhc|c=卢|p=[[Lu (surname 卢)|Lú]]}} and {{zhc|c=路|p=[[Lu (surname 路)|Lù]]}}. Previously, the practice varied among different passport issuing offices, with some transcribing as "LV" and "NV" while others used "LU" and "NU". On 10 July 2012, the [[Ministry of Public Security of the People's Republic of China|Ministry of Public Security]] standardized the practice to use "LYU" and "NYU" in passports.<ref>{{Cite web|last=Huang|first=Rong|script-title=zh:公安部最新规定 护照上的"ü"规范成"YU"|url=http://wx.xinhuanet.com/2012-08/23/c_112822099.htm|access-date=29 August 2012|url-status=dead|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140714182037/http://wx.xinhuanet.com/2012-08/23/c_112822099.htm|archive-date=14 July 2014|language=zh}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|last=Li|first=Zhiyan|script-title=zh:"吕"拼音到怎么写？ 公安部称应拼写成"LYU"|url=http://news.cnwest.com/content/2012-08/22/content_7093021.htm|access-date=23 August 2012|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130528015235/http://news.cnwest.com/content/2012-08/22/content_7093021.htm|archive-date=28 May 2013|url-status=dead|language=zh}}</ref>

Although ''nüe'' written as ''nue'', and ''lüe'' written as ''lue'' are not ambiguous, ''nue'' or ''lue'' are not correct according to the rules; ''nüe'' and ''lüe'' should be used instead. However, some Chinese input methods support both ''nve''/''lve'' (typing ''v'' for ''ü'') and ''nue''/''lue''.