Editing The Clouds (section)

==Portrayal of Socrates==
Plato appears to have considered ''The Clouds'' a contributing factor in Socrates' trial and execution in 399 BC. There is some support for his opinion in the modern age.<ref name="Aristophanes 1973, page 109">''Aristophanes:Lysistrata, The Acharnians, The Clouds'' A.Sommerstein, Penguin Classics 1973, page 109</ref> Aristophanes' plays however were generally unsuccessful in shaping public attitudes on important questions, as evidenced by their ineffectual opposition to the Peloponnesian War, demonstrated in the play ''[[Lysistrata]]'', and to populists such as Cleon.  Moreover, the trial of Socrates followed Athens' traumatic defeat by Sparta, many years after the performance of the play, when suspicions about the philosopher were fuelled by public animosity towards his disgraced associates such as [[Alcibiades]].<ref>[[#refclouds1970|Clouds (1970)]], pages XIV–XV</ref>

Socrates is presented in ''The Clouds'' as a petty thief, a fraud and a [[sophist]] with a specious interest in physical speculations.  However, it is still possible to recognize in him the distinctive individual defined in Plato's dialogues.<ref name="Postmodern Platos Catherine H 1996, page 135">''Postmodern Platos'' [[Catherine H. Zuckert]], University of Chicago Press 1996, page 135</ref> 
The practice of [[asceticism]] (as for example idealized by the Chorus in lines 412–19), disciplined, introverted thinking (as described by the Chorus in lines 700–6) and conversational [[dialectic]] (as described by Socrates in lines 489–90) appear to be caricatures of Socratic behaviours later described more sympathetically by Plato.  
The Aristophanic Socrates is much more interested in physical speculations than is Plato's Socrates, yet it is possible that the real Socrates did take a strong interest in such speculations during his development as a philosopher<ref>''The Socratic Movement'' Paul Vander Waerdt, Cornell University Press 1994, page 74</ref> and there is some support for this in Plato's dialogues ''[[Phaedo]]'' 96A and [[Timaeus (dialogue)|''Timaeus'']].

It has been argued that Aristophanes caricatured a 'pre-Socratic' Socrates and that the philosopher depicted by Plato was a more mature thinker who had been influenced by such criticism.<ref name="Postmodern Platos Catherine H 1996, page 135"/> Conversely, it is possible that Aristophanes' caricature of the philosopher merely reflects his own ignorance of philosophy.<ref>[[#refclouds1970|Clouds (1970)]], pages XXII</ref>  
According to yet another view, ''The Clouds'' can best be understood in relation to Plato's works, as evidence of a historic rivalry between poetic and philosophical modes of thought.<ref>''Postmodern Platos'' Catherine H.Zuckert, University of Chicago Press 1996, page 133, commenting on ''Socrates and Aristophanes'' by Leo Strauss, University of Chicago Press 1994</ref>