Editing Fantastic Four (section)

===Origins===
Apocryphal legend has it that in 1961, longtime [[magazine]] and [[comic book]] [[publishing|publisher]] [[Martin Goodman (publisher)|Martin Goodman]] was playing golf with either [[Jack Liebowitz]] or [[Irwin Donenfeld]] of rival company [[DC Comics]], then known as National Periodical Publications, <!-- also known as name is mentioned here because Stan Lee says "National Comics" in quote directly below this paragraph --> and that the top executive bragged about DC's success with the new superhero team the [[Justice League|Justice League of America]].<ref group=note>That DC all-star superhero team had debuted in ''The Brave and the Bold'' #28 ([[cover-date]]d Feb. 1960) before going on to its own hit title (issue #1 cover-dated Nov. 1960).</ref> While film producer and comics historian [[Michael Uslan]] has debunked the particulars of that story,<ref group=note>Uslan, in a letter published in ''Alter Ego'' #43 (December 2004), pp. 43–44, writes: "Irwin Donenfeld said he never played golf with Goodman, so the story is untrue. I heard this story more than a couple of times while sitting in the lunchroom at DC's 909 Third Avenue and 75 Rockefeller Plaza office as Sol Harrison and [production chief] Jack Adler were schmoozing with some of us&nbsp;... who worked for DC during our college summers&nbsp;... [T]he way I heard the story from Sol was that Goodman was playing with one of the heads of Independent News, not DC Comics (though DC ''owned'' Independent News). ...&nbsp;As the distributor of DC Comics, this man certainly knew all the sales figures and was in the best position to tell this tidbit to Goodman. ...&nbsp;Of course, Goodman would want to be playing golf with this fellow and be in his good graces. ...&nbsp;Sol worked closely with Independent News' top management over the decades and would have gotten this story straight from the horse's mouth."</ref> Goodman, a publishing trend-follower, aware of the JLA's strong sales, did direct his comics editor, [[Stan Lee]], to create a comic-book series about a team of superheroes. According to Lee, writing in 1974, "Martin mentioned that he had noticed one of the titles published by National Comics seemed to be selling better than most. It was a book called ''The'' {{sic}} ''Justice League of America'' and it was composed of a team of superheroes. ...&nbsp;'If the Justice League is selling', spoke he, 'why don't we put out a comic book that features a team of superheroes?'"<ref name="Origins">{{Cite book | last=Lee | first=Stan | author-link=Stan Lee | title=Origins of Marvel Comics | publisher= [[Simon & Schuster]]/[[Marvel Fireside Books|Fireside Books]]<!--Book predates publisher's change to ampersand in corporate name--> | date=September 1974|location= New York, New York| isbn=978-0-671-21863-8}}</ref>{{Rp|16}}

Lee, who had served as editor-in-chief and art director of Marvel Comics and its predecessor companies, [[Timely Comics]] and [[Atlas Comics (1950s)|Atlas Comics]], for two decades, found that the medium had become creatively restrictive. Determined "to carve a real career for myself in the nowhere world of comic books",<ref group=note>{{Cite book | last=Lee | first=Stan | author-link=Stan Lee | title=Origins of Marvel Comics | publisher= [[Simon & Schuster]]/[[Marvel Fireside Books|Fireside Books]]<!--Book predates publisher's change to ampersand in corporate name--> | date=September 1974|location= New York, New York| isbn=978-0-671-21863-8 | quote=[My wife] Joan was commenting about the fact that after 20 years of producing comics I was still writing television material, advertising copy and newspaper features in my spare time. She wondered why I didn't put as much effort and creativity into the comics as I seemed to be putting into my other freelance endeavors. ...[H]er little dissertation made me suddenly realize that it was time to start concentrating on what I was doing — to carve a real career for myself in the nowhere world of comic books.}}</ref> Lee concluded that, "For just this once, I would do the type of story I myself would enjoy reading&nbsp;... And the characters would be the kind of characters I could personally relate to: They'd be flesh and blood, they'd have their faults and foibles, they'd be fallible and feisty, and&nbsp;— most important of all&nbsp;— inside their colorful, costumed booties they'd still have feet of clay."<ref name="Origins"/>{{Rp|17}}

Lee provided one of his earliest recorded comments on the creation of the Fantastic Four for a fanzine in 1968, during which time [[penciller]] [[Jack Kirby]] was also working at Marvel. (Kirby is interviewed separately in the same publication.) When asked who conceived the team, he or Kirby, Lee responded "Both ' 'twas mainly my idea, but Jack created characters visually".<ref name="StufSaid">{{cite book |last1=Morrow |first1=John |title=Kirby & Lee: Stuf' Said! (Expanded Second Edition) |date=June 2019 |publisher=TwoMorrows Publishing |isbn=978-1-60549-094-6 |page=88 |edition=Second}}</ref> In the 1974 book [[Origins of Marvel Comics]] Lee described the creative process in more detail, stating that he developed the basic characters as well as a story synopsis for Jack Kirby to follow in the first issue.<ref>{{Cite book |last=Lee |first=Stan |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=FXJlAAAAMAAJ |title=Origins of Marvel Comics |date=1974 |publisher=Simon and Schuster |isbn=978-0-671-21864-5 |language=en}}</ref> Lee noted the involvement of both Kirby and Publisher Martin Goodman prior to preparing his synopsis: "After kicking it around with Martin and Jack for a while I decided to call our quaint quartet the Fantastic Four.  I wrote a detailed first synopsis for Jack to follow and the rest is history."<ref name="Origins"/>{{Rp|18}} Kirby turned in his penciled art pages to Lee, who added dialogue and captions. This approach to creating comics, which became known as the "[[Marvel Method]]", worked so well that Lee and Kirby used it from then on, and the Marvel Method became standard for the company within a year.<ref name="Daniels">{{Cite book | last=Daniels | first=Les | author-link=Les Daniels | title=Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades of the World's Greatest Comics | publisher=[[Abrams Books|Harry N. Abrams]]| year=1993|location= New York, New York|isbn=0-8109-8146-7}}</ref>{{Rp|87}}

Kirby recalled events somewhat differently. In a 1970 Fanzine interview he confirmed Lee's involvement in the creation of the Fantastic Four but took credit for the main characters and ideas, stating "It was my idea. It was my idea to do it the way it was; my idea to develop it the way it was. I'm not saying Stan had nothing to do with it. Of course he did. We talked things out."<ref name="Rockets Blast Comic Collector">{{cite book |title=Rockets Blast Comic Collector 81 |date=1970 |publisher=GB Love}}</ref> Years later, when specifically challenged with Lee's version of events in a 1990 interview, Kirby responded: "I would say that's an outright lie",<ref name="GG">{{Cite journal | last=Groth | first=Gary | title=Interview III: 'I've never done anything halfheartedly' | journal=[[The Comics Journal]] | issue=134|publisher=Fantagraphics Books |date=February 1990|location= Seattle, Washington}} Reprinted in {{Cite book | editor-last=George | editor-first=Milo | title=The Comics Journal Library Volume 1: Jack Kirby | publisher=Fantagraphics Books | date=May 2002|location= Seattle, Washington | isbn=1-56097-434-6}}</ref>{{Rp|39}} although the interviewer, [[Gary Groth]], notes that this statement needs to be viewed with caution.<ref group=note>Groth explains in his 2002 introduction to the interview that Kirby's state of mind needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating certain statements within the interview. Kirby was involved in an acrimonious dispute with Marvel Comics regarding the return of his artwork, and his relationship with Lee had deteriorated, in part due to this dispute but also due to Lee's public statements through the years, which Kirby saw as diminishing his role. Groth states: "Lee's contribution is a matter for endless speculation, but most observers and historians consider Kirby's claims here to be excessive."</ref> Kirby claims he came up with the idea for the Fantastic Four in Marvel's offices, and that Lee merely added the dialogue after the story was pencilled.<ref name="GG"/>{{Rp|38}} Kirby also sought to establish, more credibly and on numerous occasions, that the visual elements of the strip were his conceptions. He regularly pointed to a team he created for rival publisher DC Comics in the 1950s, the [[Challengers of the Unknown]]. "[I]f you notice the uniforms, they're the same&nbsp;... I always give them a skintight uniform with a belt&nbsp;... the Challengers and the FF have a minimum of decoration. And of course, the Thing's skin is a kind of decoration, breaking up the monotony of the blue uniform."<ref>{{Cite interview | last=Kirby | first=Jack | subject-link=Jack Kirby | interviewer=Tim Skelly | title=Interview II: 'I created an army of characters, and now my connection to them is lost' | publisher=[[WNUR-FM]]|location= Evanston, Illinois| work=The Great Electric Bird | date=May 14, 1971}} Transcribed and published in ''The Nostalgia Journal'' #27. Reprinted in George, ''The Comics Journal Library''.</ref>{{Rp|4}} It is important to note, however, that the Fantastic Four wore civilian garb instead of uniforms, which were only introduced (along with the Baxter Building Headquarters) in the third issue of the series following readership feedback.<ref name="JackStanFanTwoMorrows">{{cite book |last1=Wells |first1=John |title=American Comic Book Chronicles 1960-64 |date=January 2015 |publisher=TwoMorrows Publishing |isbn=978-1-60549-045-8 |pages=74–75}}</ref> The original submitted design was also modified to include the iconic chest insignia of a "4" within a circle that was designed by Lee.<ref>{{cite journal|last= Thomas|first= Roy|date= August 2011|title= Clothes Make the Man – and the Super-hero Team!|journal= [[Alter Ego (magazine)|Alter Ego]]|issue= 104| page= 14|publisher= [[TwoMorrows Publishing]]|location= Raleigh, North Carolina|quote= Stan himself at some point played around by drawing a number of possible chest insignias, as seen at left, before settling on the simple number '4' in a circle ...}}</ref>

Given the conflicting statements, outside commentators have found it hard to ascertain who created the Fantastic Four. A typed synopsis by Lee for the introductory segment of the first Fantastic Four issue exists and outlines the characters and their origins, with various minor differences to the published version. However Earl Wells, writing in ''The Comics Journal'', points out that its existence does not assert its place in the creation: "[W]e have no way of knowing of whether Lee wrote the synopsis after a discussion with Kirby in which Kirby supplied most of the ideas".<ref name="WE">{{Cite journal | last=Wells | first=Earl | title=Once and For All, Who Was the Author of Marvel | journal=The Comics Journal | issue=181 | date=October 1995|location= Seattle, Washington}} Reprinted in George, ''The Comics Journal Library''.</ref>{{Rp|78}}

It is also notable that the Fantastic Four's first adventure in 1961 depicts a team of four adventurers (three men and a woman) led by a professor travelling to the Earth's center and encountering giant monsters while contending with a human antagonist who is also from the surface world.<ref name="JackStanFan FF1">{{cite book |last1=Lee |first1=Stan |last2=Kirby |first2=Jack |title=Fantastic Four Volume 1 Number 1 |date=November 1962 |publisher=Canam Publishers Sale Corp |pages=26–32}}</ref> Although neither Lee nor Kirby ever mentioned the 1959 film ''[[Journey to the Center of the Earth (1959 film)|Journey to the Center of the Earth]]'' as a direct inspiration, publisher Martin Goodman was well known for following popular entertainment trends to attract sales in his comics line.<ref name="JackStanFan">{{cite book |last1=Van Lente |first1=Fred |last2=Dunlavey |first2=Ryan |title=The Comic Book History of Comics |date=2012 |publisher=IDW |isbn=978-1613771976 |pages=102–103}}</ref>

Comics historian [[R. C. Harvey]] believes the Fantastic Four was a continuation of the work Kirby previously did, and so "more likely Kirby's creations than Lee's".<ref name="RC">{{Cite journal | last=Harvey | first=R. C. | author-link=R. C. Harvey | title=What Jack Kirby Did | journal=The Comics Journal | issue=167 | date=April 1994|location= Seattle, Washington}} Reprinted in George, ''The Comics Journal Library''.</ref>{{Rp|69}} But Harvey notes that the [[Marvel Method]] of collaboration allowed each man to claim credit,<ref name="RC"/>{{Rp|68}} and that Lee's dialogue added to the direction the team took.<ref name="RC"/>{{Rp|69}} Wells argues that Lee's contributions set the framework within which Kirby worked, and this made Lee "more responsible".<ref name="WE"/>{{Rp|85}} Comics historian [[Mark Evanier]], a studio assistant to Jack Kirby in the 1970s, says that the considered opinion of Lee and Kirby's contemporaries was "that ''Fantastic Four'' was created by Stan and Jack. No further division of credit seemed appropriate."<ref>{{Cite book|last=Evanier|first=Mark|author-link=Mark Evanier| title=Kirby: King of Comics|publisher=[[Abrams Books]]|year=2008|location= New York, New York| isbn=978-0-8109-9447-8}}</ref>{{Rp|122}}